Ariane / Sout-African pride in Lochristi , Belgium :
S.A.-pride

With regards from Belgium,
Dirk
[ex4roses.googlepages.com]
[picasaweb.google.nl]
[picasaweb.google.com]

Incredible Dirk! Some really unusual looking succulents there. Do you know here they are grown originally (& where they end up?) I presume they are sold to other specialist nurseries for further sale?

Thanks for posting the photos.

Ross

Dunbar, SE Scotland.
BCSS member #46264 (originally joined 1983).
Growing cacti since 1978, with a particular interest in Sulcorebutia and Rebutia.

Hi Dirk
So did you buy any ?, how to choose one from so many,

I think I need to move to Belgium so I can come on the visit's with you

Tina

varied collection of succulents and cacti but especially like Euphorbia's and variegated agaves.

Bucks, UK

I'd imagine there are some huge holes in the veld where those have been "obtained"......

That nursery is an absolute disgrace!

I have mixed feelings about this nursery. Donīt know how much is grown in african nurseries or are "wild" plants...

Thord. All kinds of smallgrowing cacti.

Is no one else amazed/shocked by this nurseries stock?

Maybe there'd have been more outraged comments had the plants been predominately cacti?

I'm speechless!
Disgrace is not strong enough a word.

Allan
Orkney
mad about conophytums

ChrisR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe there'd have been more outraged comments had
> the plants been predominately cacti?
>
>

I had my suspicions when I saw the pictures, but do not know these species well enough to tell if the plants shown really are habitat pillaged or just grown in somewhere like Spain, Italy or Malta then imported.

It sounds like you're implying that people don't care about species other than cacti being taken from habitat.

Before this becomes a witch-hunt, some question:

Can someone who knows these plants give some idea of whether they look habitat collected. Could they be nursery grown in South Africa?

And also what is the CITES status of them?

Whilst no-one likes the idea of taking plants from habitat, especially for obvious commercial gain, maybe it is legal in the Country of origin to collect, and imported legally into the EU.

Chris
Amersham UK
Member of High Wycombe Branch
Happy for other Forum members to drop by - pm first.

[www.woodedge.co.uk]

As soon as I saw those shelving units full of rootless Pachypodiums/Fockeas and those enormous Dioscoreas I thought "there's no way those are nursery-grown". Especially in that sort of quantity, and given the amount of time needed to produce plants of that size.

Chris (D), point taken regarding possible legality, but if they were legal imports, with phytosanitary certificates, why chop the roots? I suppose it's possible, but I'd have thought it unlikely.

Wow...i dream visit like this nursery.
have a nice time
Ashraf

I always thought that if something was illegal it would be done in a clandestine way to avoid detection. However, it seems there is no need to hide one's illegal activities when dealing in plants, because the authorities can't be bothered to do anything about it. I found this item by searching Google for 'cites fockea' and it makes depressing reading:

<[books.google.com];

Somerset Phil

Chris43,-- 2 European men were recently caught by the South African authorities with a fraction of what was on those trolleys and were fined Ģ10,000 each. No one would get a permit to remove that quantity of plants and plants that size.
Even the people who can get permits are only allowed 3 plants of each, not trolley loads!
Genuine nursery raised produce does not have the roots removed.

Allan
Orkney
mad about conophytums

If I was going to illegally import plants I wouldn't go to the trouble of removing the roots. If I was importing plants from a nursery in another country and a condition of the phytosanitary certificate (or whatever bits of paper were needed) was that the plants were soil-free then I might.

Their website looks to me more like a legal importer than undercover plunderers. [www.arianecactus.be] What do you think?

I still think it's unlikely that those plants are nursery-grown. If they're not, then even if legal, it's terribly wrong from an ethical point of view.

Hi Folks,

Spectacular! But it is difficult to tell if a plant has been dug up from the wild or not. These species are mostly South African or Namibian from summer rainfall areas and it would be illegal to collect them from habitat without the land owner's permission. I have preached against this in the past on this Forum.

My best guess is that they are nursery grown, because of the small range of species, similar age/size of the specimens, round and not distorted shape of the caudices and sheer quantity of plants. Perhaps they have been imported from Thailand or maybe, the Canary Islands.

Best wishes,
Derek Tribble,
London, UK

Has anyone asked the nursery in question about the origin of their plants?

If suspicions then remain, one might refer this to the Belgian CITES Scientific Authority for plants
[www.cites.org]

Does the nursery have a website, or an address, Dirk?

Mike

Does the BCSS have any links with the CITES authorities? We ought to be working together to tackle this problem.Then if any suspicions arise the situation could be checked out. Because of the difficulty of distinguishing between cultivated and collected plants (in some cases) we should be careful about declaring someone guilty without proper investigation.

In view of the demand for habitat plants and the high prices they command some sellers might even be tempted to give the impression their plants are collected, when in fact they are cultivated (just a thought). Perhaps the BCSS could forge contacts with the growers in the Canary Islands etc so that we know what is being cultivated and what is not.

Somerset Phil

Apicra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> My best guess is that they are nursery grown,
> because of the small range of species, similar
> age/size of the specimens, round and not distorted
> shape of the caudices and sheer quantity of
> plants. Perhaps they have been imported from
> Thailand or maybe, the Canary Islands.
>

A 1 meter Dioscorea full of holes ?!?!?!